This post was edited on Thursday, 20th of June, 2013.
Note: I have had a discussion about this blogpost (see the comments below) and I would like to say that my whole view is not represented in the post. Please read the aforementioned conversation in the comments below for a more complete explanation of my views and my attitude. I don't defend victim blaming, especially (though not exclusively) in the case of rape, where so many cases go unreported because victims are scared of the consequences of reporting.
Today I was reading this article on the Guardian. It reminded me of a conversation I had about guys buying girls drinks and "teases". It reminded me of all those times I've seen a girl in a club, drunk, scantily dressed, rubbing up against a guy and I've thought "what a slut". It's reminded me that I am a girl, a woman, and that I'm clearly part of the problem.
I think one big problem with feminism today is that feminists confuse the ideal (a world in which men and women are completely equal) with the factual (the world we live in now). Rape is one of the extreme cases where this confusion creates a difficult ground for discussion.
Ideally, a woman (no, a person!) should be able to walk down the street, dressed in any clothes, in whatever state of intoxication, in whatever part of a city, at whichever time of the day or night, and not have to fear attack. Ideally, rape would not happen, ever. Ideally no one would ever dream of saying "She was asking for it".
Factually, I try not to cross Hyde Park at night on my own, I try to only get very drunk when I have friends around, and I know (even if I still do it) that walking home on my own at night, especially when I'm drunk, is not the safest decision.
A few years back I had the fortune to visit the Maasai Mara, and in the group I went with there happened to be two Canadian guys. They were very happy to be coming with us, but told us they could only join us for the first two weeks, after that they had to get back to Nairobi to sort out their documents and fly back to Canada. The first night they had spent in Nairobi they'd decided to go out clubbing. Just as they arrived in the first bar two men had come in carrying guns and held them at gun point, and stolen all their documents from them. They had had not only their passports, but their driving licences, their flight tickets and their money on them. They had been left completely penniless, the only perk being that they'd booked and paid for a safari starting the next day, so they would have food and somewhere to stay for the next fifteen days.
This story has nothing to do with rape, of course, but it does have to do with blame culture. No one would say that the two Canadians were to blame for being robbed. The robbers are to blame. The people who held them at gunpoint, told them to lie down on the floor and took their documents are guilty. However, many travelers will agree with me that, to some extent, they were asking for it. Common sense should prevail when traveling: don't keep all your documents together, only carry the most necessary documents with you on a night out, make sure you have backups... In my opinion the same applies to rape. We all need to understand that a person who rapes is guilty no matter what. They have taken someone else and forced them to do something against their will, or without their consent. Morally, this is wrong, and it's wrong because it hurts someone. However, people should use common sense. As a woman, I hope that some day I can live in a world where I don't have to worry about getting drunk or about what I'm wearing. As a person with some common sense, I don't get drunk with complete strangers and I take some care as to how I appear to others. I try not to put myself in a position that makes me vulnerable.
A lot of feminists won't agree with me. They will say that saying this will only perpetuate women's enslavement, and that it will only perpetuate the blame culture. Perhaps they're right. All I know is that the next time I go out, I want to have a couple of friends with me and I don't want to walk home on my own.
Your views are not new to me since you've told me this before, but reading it, I think I've pin pointed one big area where when we use the same word we don't mean the same thing.
ReplyDeleteWhen you use the word "rape" you seem to be thinking of the stereotypical "rape in a dark alley by a stranger". However most rapes happen by someone the victim knows (statistic inside this article is of 6 out of 7: http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/meet-the-predators/ I think you'd find this link interesting, and if it makes you read it with an open mind, the author is a guy).
I've read texts by woman laugh bitterly at the suggestion to not take a bus but that a friend takes them home, since they were raped by that friend (i can dig up a temoignage from Evernote if you want).
Just going to link to some of my reading found in Evernote (+ quotes you'll find relevant):
http://glosswatch.com/2012/12/17/top-tips-for-rape-avoidance-why-caitlin-moran-got-it-wrong/
"Telling women what to do to avoid being raped is always claimed to be some great taboo. Anyone who does this prefaces their comments with “you won’t want to hear this…” or “in an ideal world we wouldn’t say it…” "
http://sianandcrookedrib.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/on-how-women-are-not-wallets-and-why.html
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I’ve said it before, but women are not cars, we’re not wallets. We are people. We don’t leave ourselves open or unlocked by walking around in public spaces. Not going outside is not a ‘sensible’ precaution to take whilst waiting for society to change. Not living our lives freely and independently is not a ‘sensible’ precaution. Telling women where they can and cannot be present in order to ‘avoid’ violence is not helpful. It does nothing to tackle male violence; it does nothing to stop rape. It just re-enforces the idea that rape is caused by women’s behaviour, and if we just stopped insisting on going outside then we might all be ok.
It’s so dehumanising to compare women to material objects. And it’s so dangerous to tell women that they just need to follow some rules to be safe. As if rape is a natural hazard, and not a violent crime deliberately committed by another person.
"
And a funny (albeit dark humor) comic:
http://bitemebeautiful.tumblr.com/post/40426425449/tooyoungforthelivingdead-themasterstools-how
No, we mean the same thing, but I refuse to discuss victim blaming in cases where the victim and the assailant knew each other because I don't think there's any precautions a girl can take against that.
DeleteI distrust statistics about this kind of thing: they usually include things like "75 to 95% of rape cases aren't reported to the police". This is unarguable. How are the making this statistic? Is it out of the rapes that are reported to hotlines versus those reported to the police? So when you say 6 out of 7 I find a lot of problems to it: first, if we accept there is underreporting (and I am fairly sure there is underreporting), then are these 6 out of 7 out of the total or out of the reported ones or what? Also, when the assailant knows the victim there is the fact that a lot of victims don't realise it's rape, leading (of course) to more underreporting. In any case, don't really trust the numbers, even though I still understand (and agree with) your point: rape usually doesn't happen in situations where common sense might have prevented it.
Will read the blogposts later, but comments on the quotes (out of context):
1. Firstly, I'm not telling women what to do to avoid being raped. There's very little one can do to avoid being raped. I am just saying "be safe". I could say being mugged instead of raped, there are situations where it's more likely to happen, try to stay out of those situations. In any case, the reason it's viewed as a big taboo is because it is a big taboo, every time someone does this, every time someone says "Hey, you don't want to be walking on your own at night through a dark park" to a girl that's fine, but if generically we say "Girls, don't walk at night on your own through a dark park", then its counted as victim blaming.
2. I've read the second one actually. I understand. I tend to agree. But I still stand by what I say, I'd rather take a small precaution and not be raped than not take it and be raped. It all depends on how much it limits my freedom: I wouldn't go to a country in war because I don't want to get hurt. It limits my freedom of movement, but I'm happy to give up that freedom of movement not to get hurt.
Maybe I'm re-enforcing that rape is caused by female behaviour, but all I am saying is (to people in general): be careful, have common sense, don't put yourselves in danger. I don't mean it just for women. And I don't think I am comparing women to material objects. Claiming that the victim of a robbery is the wallet is quite simply stupid. The victim of a robbery is a person. It's not the same as a rape, I won't say that it is, but telling someone to have common sense in order not to be attacked shouldn't be as vilified as it is. What I agree is wrong is to say it once the rape has occurred. That's just vile, and that is victim blaming (especially when it's specified: "she was drunk, she was dressed like that, she was alone"... bullshit. He raped her). I would never tell a rape victim "you shouldn't have done this" because everyone is free to make their own choices, but I will pull a friend away and tell her "hey, you are putting yourself in a position where you might get into trouble". And I can't see what's wrong with that. And of course if I see a guy acting in a way that is aggressive or violent I will try to stop it (probably won't get into a fight, I'm not any good at that, but I can call the police, or draw attention to the moment).
Anyways, write more when I've read everything.
Ok, so we do have the same idea of "rape" but not the same idea of the proportions. I get where you're coming from, because yes, in a world where "rape" would mean "in a dark alley by a complete stranger who jumped out of the bushes", I would agree with your points about keeping safe.
DeleteI do think that most rapes are where the rapist is known, so I don't think the above points are helpful because they are points that are helpful for just general crime (murder etc).
I think they are particularly unhelpful because victims reading this will be afraid to report (just need to see what the media says in every rapist trial, ie Steubenville, blaming the victim) and the rapists/potential rapist will therefore be more likely to choose someone who does the above things you mention, since they'll know their victim won't be believed/will be blamed if they ever do report it in the first case.
Also I just find it dangerous because your definition of "drunk, scantily dressed" and "teasing"/flirty behaviour might be very different than someone else's.
What if you've had one glass of wine ? Maybe you're tipsy and you're having fun so you'll appear more drunk to other people (the number of times i've had people tell me i'm drunk at parties when i haven't had anything to drink, just because i'm having fun/smiling/letting go more than usual).
"Scantily dressed"; I don't think I have to mention certain religions to show how this is viewed very differently by everyone. http://i.huffpost.com/gen/940429/thumbs/o-JUDGEMENTS-900.jpg?13
Is making eye contact flirting ? Is giving a hug/making skin contact flirting ? Smiling ?
Basically I'm trying to say there is no one universal limit, so telling people to be careful doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. To quote the Caitlin Moran examples given above (sorry, I know you haven't read them already), for some people taking a taxi is being careful/common sense, for the ones raped by the taxi driver it wasn't.
Why does saying "have common sense" equate to being afraid to report? Just because you didn't have common sense doesn't make you guilty... I guess this is just a way of seeing things, as I said in the comment above, it's the kind of thing that I would say a priori but never a posteriori (as in, if someone comes to me and tells me they've been raped, the furthest thing from my mind is to tell them "you shouldn't have done this, this and that").
DeleteYes, that's a problem with any historical issue (by historical I mean temporal and subjective, such as economics, biology, or social behaviour), that definitions have to be extremely clear. In any case "drunk, scantily dressed, teasing, flirting" are no excuse anyway! No one should ever be raped, regardless of how you behave, but I think saying "be careful" is just saying "be careful". I don't know about you, but I know quite well when I'm "tipsy and having fun" and when I'm "out of my senses drunk". And in any case it doesn't matter, because my argument is "avoid putting yourself in a dangerous situation", I respect your own assessment of dangerous.
And the other thing is this: I am not saying "do this and rape won't happen". Rape will happen as long as there are people willing to commit it. I'm just saying, "hey, be careful, take care of yourself". And you're right, it's precaution against any other crime, but that's also part of my point: if it's fine to say "Hey, if you go to the Bronx late at night and get into a fight with someone who's high on drugs you might get killed", but it's not alright to say, "Hey, if you go this club, get completely fucked on drinks, and then you go outside and make out with a random stranger, then you might end up getting raped". I will not say either of the things is wrong because they're not (actually, getting into a fight is probably wrong, but whatever). You are free to behave how you like, but I should be free to warn you that certain behaviours put you in more risk than others.
Ok I get what you're saying. What about http://pinterest.com/pin/46161964903433517/ ?
Delete"If you're promoting changes to women's behaviour to "prevent" rape, you're really saying "make sure he rapes the other girl""
Also, you say some people ignore the context that we don't live in a perfect world. From what you say, i think you're ignoring the context that people reading "prevention tips" that are meant a priori, are already in a a posteriori situation (having already been raped, and therefore leading to the underreporting/being ashamed of reporting argument I was making). You're also ignoring the context of a society who shames women for their behaviours (what they wear, what they decide to do with their health) in general, and who talks of the "ruined lives" of convicted rapists (http://gawker.com/5991003/cnn-reports-on-the-promising-future-of-the-steubenville-rapists-who-are-very-good-students).
Being afraid to report is being afraid of the media's, society's and people you know around you's reaction (since it's often a victim blaming/shaming reaction). I have so many links of different stories and articles for this one (from the public shaming tumblr again: http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/post/45969541040/these-steubenville-posts-are-pretty-depressing) so i'll give the example of the girl who killed herself because of her school's reaction to her gang rape (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/canada/9985196/Teenager-commits-suicide-after-photograph-of-her-being-gang-raped-goes-viral.html and http://www.huffingtonpost.com/soraya-chemaly/the-sad-lesson-of-rehtaeh_b_3070891.html). A very recent read, where a women was suspended from her college for reporting her rape: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10130346/Student-suspended-after-reporting-alleged-rape.html.
I know you say you would never said this a posteriori, but that's ignoring the context that just this week Serena Williams said the victim shouldn't have been drunk: http://www.gradientlair.com/post/53365334739/serena-williams-outrageous-victim-blaming
Also, I don't think feminists are ignoring a context of "factual (the world we live in now)". They *are* looking at the world we live in now, and seeing that most rapes are done by people known to the victim, that children are not taught basic things like consent and it shows through their behaviour and entitlement, that advertisement gives dangerous views of femininity and masculinity (have I linked you to the Killing Us Softly 4 documentary?), that the media/society victim blames and controls women (eg anti-abortion laws), etc.
Last link I promise, to a recent read about victims being drunk: http://www.shakesville.com/2006/11/good-god.html
She acknowledges that "I can understand the arguments made that no one—of either sex—is well served by regularly drinking so much that they lose consciousness. Something bad is bound to happen when one makes a habit of trusting to the goodness of humanity." and goes on to make really good arguments about the article she's reviewing.
It contains a really good quote:
""The media doesn't want to look at why men want to have sex with comatose, drunk women, often covered in vomit, often lying in streets, on the floor, without any notion of what's happening to them.""
Sorry for all the links, I thought this was going to be a 2 line response but there's so much to say! These are ideas I really understood (and I probably still have a lot of subconscious victim blaming left) after reading thousands of articles (not joking, my evernotes tagged with "feminism" count is up to 1151 and notes including the word "rape" are up to 675), so I don't think I can do them justice in a few words, and I think you'll find the sources more interesting anyway :)
You're right. I still think it's not out of place to say, please be careful, please have common sense: when you go out, when you drink, when you travel, whenever.
DeleteThe thing is I'm not promoting changes in women's behaviour: I'm not saying "women shouldn't go out at night" or "women should wear this or that and not that other thing". I'm saying be careful and have common sense, not just to women but to anyone. Men can get raped too after all (though this is a discussion for another post).
"You're also ignoring the context of a society who blames women for what they wear, etc.". I am and I'm not. Some members of society blame women for what they wear, not all society and not society in general. I'm not ignoring this context at all, in fact, if this didn't happen, it would be ok to say "be careful" and it wouldn't be considered an attack on women's freedom to say to be careful.
Agreed with the being afraid part. However I haven't experienced in reporting in Spain (or in the UK for that matter, as far as I can remember) instances of rapers being defended, or talked about as though their lives are ruined. It happens a lot more in the States than it does in Europe I suspect, but yes it's still a problem, and it's vile, and it should never happen, but it has no relation to telling someone to be careful (again).
And that's not ignoring the context. When I say it's never said a posteriori I mean I personally would never say it a posteriori, and I think people who say it a posteriori are (to put it mildly) wrong.
Again, because I don't feel that I have ever been the victim of sexism in an overt way, I am wary of "society" or "media" doing things. It's true, of course, but I just assume people see it for what it is and ignore this type of thing (I know, they don't). So I'm in the wrong here, I know, it comes from personal experience: if I were raped I would report it, I know for a fact that my parents would be there for me, and I would very quickly find out who my friends are.
Agreed with that link. And agreed. That's one of the things that bothers me about people who say "she shouldn't have gotten that drunk", the fact of "why would you think it was RIGHT to have sex with her if she was drunk?", "why would you even find it sexually arousing?". It's kind of the same thing that just shocks me about pedophilia, even outside of the wrongness of it: who the hell finds a child attractive in a sexual way? It's not normal...
Anyway, guess what I'm saying is, you're right, and I think we can agree that victims shouldn't be blamed, and that we can agree that people are free to behave how they like. But I think people should understand the consequences of their actions (NOT rape, rape isn't a consequence of your actions): drinking (for example) can lead to unconsciousness and this can lead to people taking advantage of you (not necessarily sexually). Don't drink so much that you pass out. I still don't think it's wrong to say this.
From your above comment, it looks like we both agree and I can trust you to have my back.
DeleteHowever, from your blog post, to someone who doesn't read your comments, you're putting "Don't drink so much that you pass out" precisely in the context of "sexually" (ie rape, despite your above comment adding "not necessarily sexually").
What i'm saying is that for your friends/readers who already hold a world view of victim blaming, they'll be comforted it that and are not the sort of people who will read on to our discussion in the comments. You've just implied that it's ok/logical to victim blame and comment on woman's behaviours, instead of speaking out when they see something not ok, and helping a person who looks blackout drunk (I know *you* would help from the stories you've told me at christmas for eg, but not everyone would think of it, and those could include your friends, who could be reading your blog).
Rape, murder, theft - it's irrelevant what the bad thing is. If you consciously put yourself in a situation which increases the likelihood of that bad thing happening, then it's perfectly fair if someone points out that you should have been wiser.
DeleteThis is always framed as an issue of 'blame', when actually it's an issue of wisdom on the part of the victim.
The problem with rape is, a lot of the time the rapist gets let off on the grounds that it wasn't his fault if the victim was being provocative, etc. whereas in other crimes this wouldn't happen... But essentially, I agree with you, which was the point of the post.
Delete